It was a model primarily targeted for the North American market, to entice Americans into buying Beetles who were used to automatics. It was sold as a higher-cost option. Sales were tremendous the first year, better than 30% of production.
The first cars had VW-AUTOMATIC in place of the VOLKSWAGEN script on the decklid, but it was changed to AUTOMATIC STICKSHIFT because the transmission was not fully automatic and the script was deemed to be misleading.
Starter abnormality
Starter abnormality
Talk about sales and marketing.
Now, back to the 'real talk about the starter on my manual'- my main problem is a grinded starter clutch. Is it possible to get that particular part replaced?... I'm told the bendix can. so, how is it removed? I can't figure it out past the solenoid fork.
Now, back to the 'real talk about the starter on my manual'- my main problem is a grinded starter clutch. Is it possible to get that particular part replaced?... I'm told the bendix can. so, how is it removed? I can't figure it out past the solenoid fork.
This might help
Here are two seoerate postings on Bosch starter repair.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2359900
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/ ... bosch-.htm
Though they be a little different the general principle is the same.
Good luck!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2359900
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/ ... bosch-.htm
Though they be a little different the general principle is the same.
Good luck!
Starter abnormality
Hey Darzoom,
thanks. Will get to learn the principles and 'do-it'.
As always, will feedback on the progress.
cheers.
thanks. Will get to learn the principles and 'do-it'.
As always, will feedback on the progress.
cheers.
Starter abnormality
Hi.
Thanks for the resources... I have managed getting the starter clutch out.
I'll try get the independent part.
Thanks for the resources... I have managed getting the starter clutch out.
I'll try get the independent part.
Starter abnormality
guys.... i dont know how to attach a photo. Thought I'd done it but... lol!
Kindly help.
Kindly help.
Starter abnormality
Hey,
was looking at the parts again... I have been meaning to refer to the starter drive.
Besides the reference no (been trying to get the very part), does any one know a starter drive that would be compatible (same thing but different manufacturer...particularly for a different car)...just trying to know if I might have wider options should I find problems getting the part
Thanks.
was looking at the parts again... I have been meaning to refer to the starter drive.
Besides the reference no (been trying to get the very part), does any one know a starter drive that would be compatible (same thing but different manufacturer...particularly for a different car)...just trying to know if I might have wider options should I find problems getting the part
Thanks.
Starter abnormality
Hi.
I got a bendix....and was very glad it was a Bosch.
BIG QUESTION! It had bushing in it that was not allowing the amature to go through. I removed them
The car starts smooth other than a "final scratch-noise" should the ignition/starter still be engaged yet the engine has started running by itself...its almost as though that is the "tell" that the car has started (I'm really having a hard time here trying to explain myself out....anybody getting what I'm saying?)
So, my question is, is there a bushing that should be refit on the bendix to hold it in place on the amature shaft?
Thaks.
I got a bendix....and was very glad it was a Bosch.
BIG QUESTION! It had bushing in it that was not allowing the amature to go through. I removed them
The car starts smooth other than a "final scratch-noise" should the ignition/starter still be engaged yet the engine has started running by itself...its almost as though that is the "tell" that the car has started (I'm really having a hard time here trying to explain myself out....anybody getting what I'm saying?)
So, my question is, is there a bushing that should be refit on the bendix to hold it in place on the amature shaft?
Thaks.
Starter abnormality
Hey planenut,
you're right...however, please read through my last query about a new bendix I got and confirm matters about the bushing I removed to allow its refitting back to the amateur shaft.
Thanks.
you're right...however, please read through my last query about a new bendix I got and confirm matters about the bushing I removed to allow its refitting back to the amateur shaft.
Thanks.
trying to understand
So are you saying the starter motor contines to run even though the engine has started? Or, is the starter solenoid keeing the bendix meshed with the flywheel? Some possible causes and fixes:
When you turn the key to start the vehicle, power is supplied to the primary side of the solenoid (which is a high amperage relay) the solenoid closes and power, 30 - 40 amps worth, is supplied to the starter motor. The starter motor starts to spin and the solenoid, at the same time, pushes the Bendix gear to mesh with the gears on the flywheel - it turns the flywheel until the engine starts. When you release the ignition from the start position to the run position, current is no longer supplied to the solenoid primary, the circuit to the starter is open and the gear retracts down the shaft of the starter and the starter stops running.
So where in the process are you saying there is a failure?
Places to look for isses:
Switch is sticking internally and the low voltage is staying on after releasing the key. Check the switch for proper operation. I have only seen this one time.
When something keeps starting after you let off the key its is usually the solenoid. It could be the solenoid low voltage wires on wrong posts on solenoid. This will cause the starter to send the bendix into the starter and keep the solenoid enguaged all the time keeping the Bendix in the enguaged position. THen when you turn the key, high voltage is sent to the starter motor and it starts spinning. Easy fix by switching the wires.
To test that just remove the wires from the solenoid and jump across the poles to cause the starter to enguage. This may be hard to do as you have to reach to the started and use a screwdriver to jump the posts. If you leave the key on the car should start and when the jumper is removed the starter should stop turning and the solenoid disenguage the bendix. If you plan to try this make sure you have someone in the drivers seat, the car out of gear and raised so in case something happens you can escape as needed.
On many vehicles there are starter shims to set the depth. In that they VW does not use starter shims. It may be possible that the starter could not be fully seated in the trans housing and causing the gears to enguage at an angle and stick. So once enguaged the bendix gears and the flywheel gears stick. Check to see that the starter is seated properly in the housing by loosening the starter up, holding it in place and look to see that it is seated without the bolts holding it in. If that is good, tighetn it up and look to see it is seated in the housing. The long bolt could be bent and causing it not to seat. Also, when you tighten the starter, work from bolt to bolt as you tighten as it you lighten the short one first, it may cause the top side, at the long bolt, to be at an angle and cause the starter to bind in the housing.
The final thing I can think of is the bendix has the incorrect number of teeth. There is a difference between the 6 and 12 volt bendix and flywheels and the gearing between the two must match. In that you did not change the flywheel that is not an issue. Count the teeth on the old bendix gear and see that the new one has the same number of teeth. If there is a different count, it may cause the bendix gear to stick to the flywheel gear.
These have been my experiences in working on bugs in the past. I know others will provide added info as their experiences may have been different. I always think the more info the better.
Good luck!
When you turn the key to start the vehicle, power is supplied to the primary side of the solenoid (which is a high amperage relay) the solenoid closes and power, 30 - 40 amps worth, is supplied to the starter motor. The starter motor starts to spin and the solenoid, at the same time, pushes the Bendix gear to mesh with the gears on the flywheel - it turns the flywheel until the engine starts. When you release the ignition from the start position to the run position, current is no longer supplied to the solenoid primary, the circuit to the starter is open and the gear retracts down the shaft of the starter and the starter stops running.
So where in the process are you saying there is a failure?
Places to look for isses:
Switch is sticking internally and the low voltage is staying on after releasing the key. Check the switch for proper operation. I have only seen this one time.
When something keeps starting after you let off the key its is usually the solenoid. It could be the solenoid low voltage wires on wrong posts on solenoid. This will cause the starter to send the bendix into the starter and keep the solenoid enguaged all the time keeping the Bendix in the enguaged position. THen when you turn the key, high voltage is sent to the starter motor and it starts spinning. Easy fix by switching the wires.
To test that just remove the wires from the solenoid and jump across the poles to cause the starter to enguage. This may be hard to do as you have to reach to the started and use a screwdriver to jump the posts. If you leave the key on the car should start and when the jumper is removed the starter should stop turning and the solenoid disenguage the bendix. If you plan to try this make sure you have someone in the drivers seat, the car out of gear and raised so in case something happens you can escape as needed.
On many vehicles there are starter shims to set the depth. In that they VW does not use starter shims. It may be possible that the starter could not be fully seated in the trans housing and causing the gears to enguage at an angle and stick. So once enguaged the bendix gears and the flywheel gears stick. Check to see that the starter is seated properly in the housing by loosening the starter up, holding it in place and look to see that it is seated without the bolts holding it in. If that is good, tighetn it up and look to see it is seated in the housing. The long bolt could be bent and causing it not to seat. Also, when you tighten the starter, work from bolt to bolt as you tighten as it you lighten the short one first, it may cause the top side, at the long bolt, to be at an angle and cause the starter to bind in the housing.
The final thing I can think of is the bendix has the incorrect number of teeth. There is a difference between the 6 and 12 volt bendix and flywheels and the gearing between the two must match. In that you did not change the flywheel that is not an issue. Count the teeth on the old bendix gear and see that the new one has the same number of teeth. If there is a different count, it may cause the bendix gear to stick to the flywheel gear.
These have been my experiences in working on bugs in the past. I know others will provide added info as their experiences may have been different. I always think the more info the better.
Good luck!
Starter abnormality
Hey darzoom!!
I must say- thanks for the detailed troubleshoot procedures. Fantastic! I will use them to get to the full solution-
having said that, I'd like your mind at this-
my most recent experience might have just led me to a probable root/cause. I engaged the starter switch (ignition) and a jark on the starter (solenoid engaged) but all of a sudden, even the 'indicator' lights went off- at that point, I suspected a short-circuit in the system...removed the -ve terminal and confirmed a problem as on tapping it on that battery, it would stark lightly. I turned the engine using the fun belt, heard the starter disengage and testing the battery terminals, the sparks were gone. I hence suspected the starter.
I later remembered I had noticed 2 terminals that hold the starter brushed had 'loosened'...and thought to tear the starter apart. (This is after a day of jump-starting the hard way- pushing the car).
True to my suspicions, the terminals were off position.
If this was sufficient to get the solenoid engaging but not spinning the motor, could it be that it is related?
Hey, as feedback on the results of the fix, I was glad to get the starter working. I will confirm how well in a few days of use.
All-in-all, this is a great learning journey...
Thanks a lot.
I must say- thanks for the detailed troubleshoot procedures. Fantastic! I will use them to get to the full solution-
having said that, I'd like your mind at this-
my most recent experience might have just led me to a probable root/cause. I engaged the starter switch (ignition) and a jark on the starter (solenoid engaged) but all of a sudden, even the 'indicator' lights went off- at that point, I suspected a short-circuit in the system...removed the -ve terminal and confirmed a problem as on tapping it on that battery, it would stark lightly. I turned the engine using the fun belt, heard the starter disengage and testing the battery terminals, the sparks were gone. I hence suspected the starter.
I later remembered I had noticed 2 terminals that hold the starter brushed had 'loosened'...and thought to tear the starter apart. (This is after a day of jump-starting the hard way- pushing the car).
True to my suspicions, the terminals were off position.
If this was sufficient to get the solenoid engaging but not spinning the motor, could it be that it is related?
Hey, as feedback on the results of the fix, I was glad to get the starter working. I will confirm how well in a few days of use.
All-in-all, this is a great learning journey...
Thanks a lot.
scratching head
Need help understanding what you are saying:
"I engaged the starter switch (ignition) and a jark on the starter (solenoid engaged) but all of a sudden, even the 'indicator' lights went off."
Does jark mean the started jerked to come on and then stopped? If that is the case, look back in this post where I mentioned the wiring to the light switch and that the high voltage for the starter goes through that wire. There I had said that over time the spade connectors work loose and should be bent together to tighten if possible or replace the spade connector. Otherwise, you loose power to the starter and the whole car. Hence, the indicator lights go out.
I also suggested you check for that as it will cause resistane and a low power condition that causes the start to not work.
I also mentioned the wires could be bad as it is an old car you many need to replace that main wire as it carries all the poswer from the fuse block back to where all the poswer is needed for the engine. Old wires may look good but may have corroded inside where you cannot see them.
I offered installing the universal solenoid switch to boost the six volt power as needed. One one car I had the universal solenoid and removed it when replacing the bad main wire.
In what you are saying now it appears all was caused by a drop in power which could have all started with a loose wire under the hood. Disconnect the battery and under the hood by the fuse block remove the large red wires (5 or 8mm) one at a time. Pay attention to see if the come off easy or hard. If with relativaly medium pressure they do not come off you are okay. Stop pulling on them and just press them back on. If any are loose and come of easily, use plyers and kind of smash the openings on both sides down so they go on the spade tighter. Of course if any are broken replace them. Sounds like you found the orginal cause of the entire problem. Voltage Drop.
Happy Motoring......
"I engaged the starter switch (ignition) and a jark on the starter (solenoid engaged) but all of a sudden, even the 'indicator' lights went off."
Does jark mean the started jerked to come on and then stopped? If that is the case, look back in this post where I mentioned the wiring to the light switch and that the high voltage for the starter goes through that wire. There I had said that over time the spade connectors work loose and should be bent together to tighten if possible or replace the spade connector. Otherwise, you loose power to the starter and the whole car. Hence, the indicator lights go out.
I also suggested you check for that as it will cause resistane and a low power condition that causes the start to not work.
I also mentioned the wires could be bad as it is an old car you many need to replace that main wire as it carries all the poswer from the fuse block back to where all the poswer is needed for the engine. Old wires may look good but may have corroded inside where you cannot see them.
I offered installing the universal solenoid switch to boost the six volt power as needed. One one car I had the universal solenoid and removed it when replacing the bad main wire.
In what you are saying now it appears all was caused by a drop in power which could have all started with a loose wire under the hood. Disconnect the battery and under the hood by the fuse block remove the large red wires (5 or 8mm) one at a time. Pay attention to see if the come off easy or hard. If with relativaly medium pressure they do not come off you are okay. Stop pulling on them and just press them back on. If any are loose and come of easily, use plyers and kind of smash the openings on both sides down so they go on the spade tighter. Of course if any are broken replace them. Sounds like you found the orginal cause of the entire problem. Voltage Drop.
Happy Motoring......
Starter abnormality
Hi.
Can't believe what power loss has cost me all this while- thanks Darzoom- that last post got me to the problem.
Best regards.
Can't believe what power loss has cost me all this while- thanks Darzoom- that last post got me to the problem.
Best regards.
Starter Abnormality
Hi.
I interestingly found a silent additional problem....(once again, darzoom, thanks for the detailed diagnostics list).
I have a silently faulty ignition switch. It kept the starter running despite turning back to the 'disengage position'...actually went on even on the off position and with the key removed. (reflex had it that I jump to lift the back seat and remove battery terminals).
I'll get to fit a replacement.
I interestingly found a silent additional problem....(once again, darzoom, thanks for the detailed diagnostics list).
I have a silently faulty ignition switch. It kept the starter running despite turning back to the 'disengage position'...actually went on even on the off position and with the key removed. (reflex had it that I jump to lift the back seat and remove battery terminals).
I'll get to fit a replacement.