Sudden Power loss

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:43 pm

Hi Guys. I am in real need of advice. My bug just lost all power and cant go up a hill which leads to home.
History- had been packed for 12yrs. i changed the oil, run the engine and drove it aproximately 20 miles smoothly where it got home past the hill with no sweat. It had done the hill two more ocassions later but failed on the third and lost all power...so now parked downhill. Advice

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:49 pm

I would start looking for a fuel problem.

If the car sat for that long, you probably have some dirt/varnish in the fuel lines/carburetor. Start from the fuel tank (look inside for dirt) and work to the rear of the car until (blow out the fuel line with air) you reach the carburetor. Change the fuel filter and blow some carb cleaner through the carb.

If that doesn't help, you may be getting carb ice. Carb ice would develope if the riser tubes on the manifold are blocked. If they are, the car would run for a time and then lose power and run rough. After the car sits, the ice would have melted and the motor run fine until the ice reforms.

Keep us posted.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:56 pm

Hi hercdriver.

I appreciate the feedback. You mentioned something that caught my attention. The carb was call covered with beads of water as that which happens on frozen bottles. I havent tried the car ever since. I will give it a shot and see the outcome.

If carrb ice be the problem, what is the solution? is it cleaning the carb and fuel line right from the tank?

I'm getting hope....thanks

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:35 am

If it's carb ice, you'll need to clean out the riser tubes on the intake manifold.
Easier said than done. They can be a hassle to clean out.

If you're not familiar with the intake, here's my best explanation....

As air and fuel are mixed in the carburetor, they are drawn through the tube (manifold) to the cylinders for combustion. The fuel mixture moves because of a drop in pressure. When the pressure drops the temperature also drops. Any moisture in the mixture then has the potential to from ice inside of the manifold. That ice will build and restrict the flow of fuel air mixture (= loss of power). VW was aware of carb ice, so the came up with a fix. They took hot exhaust gas and ran it through the smaller tubes on your intake. The heat from the these riser tubes transfers heat to the intake and keeps the ice from forming. It's simple and works well, until after years of use the riser tubes get blocked by carbon from the exhaust. You can tell if they are blocked by feeling the temperature of the manifold (be careful of getting burned!). If they are just warm after the engine is warmed up, they're probably blocked. If they are, you have two choices. Remove the manifold and 1. clean it out or 2. replace it. I'd rather clean it since it's original to the car.

Many have had luck cleaning them out with oven cleaner, sharp metal pick, and a stiff cable attached to a drill.

Hope that helped.

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:53 am

Here's a picture of the manifold and heat risers to help.

The carb sits on the top hole. The manifold is the larger tube on top and to the rear (of this picture) that travels to the cylinders. The risers are the smaller tubes that travel down to the exhaust system.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:01 am

Can't express my gratitude on your valuable input.

I suspect I might be dealing with a different proble...based on your troubleshoot that says, if carb ice, when the car sits for some time, will be able to run as untill the ice forms....

I tried powering it and driving it off.....she would only drug barely a meter by the time the clutch is fully up and loose her full power. What are the tell-tell signs of a dying clutch? This is not rulling out any other problem.

I took a pick at the bottom as well, I noticed something of concern, there seemed to be some oil leak from somewhere. The surface had some forming drops but none on the floor. I happened to notice one of the four (please forgive me for I might just call this by the wrong name and confuse the picture) push rod (certain vissible round rods on either side of the engine-)

I appreciate this as an opportunity to learn a lot. I appreciate the photo and the good assumption that I might not know what the parts are.

kindly advice. I'm all ears.

Thank you.

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:50 am

Ok, let's take a step by step look at your problem.

First. If I read your previous post correctly, the car ran fine for about twenty miles and then lost power. I need to know what you mean by losing power.

How is it running now?
Is it hard to start?
Does it idle?
Does it seem to run well when you rev the engine with the car out of gear?
Can you hear the rpm's increase (but not feel acceleration) when you push the gas pedal while driving?

Let's get specific about how the car is running. Then we can get specific about trouble shooting.

I'm still thinking you have a fuel problem/ fowled plugs. But can't say for sure until you give some more information.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:23 pm

Hi.

Thanks for the specific questions.

The car has no hard start. (it ealier did but on checking the plug cables and changing them, that ended)

One thing I noticed is it lost its idle. I got all plugs out and cleaned off the black sute and realized the idle came back but for a short while.

The lose in power is evident by accelerating as I hear the rev but the car seems to go nowhere.... almost as though it were not in gear.

On free, the engine rev is perfect.

Now a key and significant progress - I started thee car, reved it at high rpms on free gear for a while, then went for the hill. To my amazement, it got home though with a slight strugle. I will change the plugs and confirm new plugs and report the results. I have my suspessions on that. I might also do new plug cables as what I used were spares in my kit.

I hope I have been clear. I highly appreciate the input. I see me enjoy this journey with my 66bug......with guys like you feeding me with vital info.

Also to mention, the fuel died off on arrival. I guess a good opportunity to get the tank out and check/change the fuel filter.... I'll try see into the fuel matter as adviced earlier.

Cheers.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:20 pm

By the way, was having a look at the manifold pic you sent. I will consider cleaning the riser tubes... I guess it wouldn't hart doing this even if it were not the current problem. Is this a normal maintenance issue with this engine or just when carb ice problems are detected?

Say the plugs were the problem, would you advice going through the hustle of detaching the manifold (baring in mind that this is a total beginner).

Say I chose to go that way of removing the manifold, what other parts would be easily accessible and might best be attended to once one has gone that far and for what reason?

Thanks.

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:51 pm

KKV270 wrote:Say the plugs were the problem, would you advice going through the hustle of detaching the manifold (baring in mind that this is a total beginner).

Say I chose to go that way of removing the manifold, what other parts would be easily accessible and might best be attended to once one has gone that far and for what reason?

Stay focused on one thing at a time.

It sounds like the car ran better after you cleaned the spark plugs. Is that correct?

If they were fowled (black soot), you're mixture is too rich.
Were they all fowled? If only one was fowled, you may have a bad plug wire.
You can test the spark plug wires by removing one wire at a time from the distributor cap while the engine is running and listen for an RPM drop. (Be careful not to get shocked)
If you're running rich, you need to find out why. It could be a carburetor adjustment is needed. You should also check your timing.

I wouldn't worry about cleaning out the manifold yet. It's something to rule out later.

For now. Get yourself a new set of spark plugs and set their gap. Swap out the old for new plugs. Keep the old ones as a spare set.

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:12 pm

Here's a video to help with the carburetor.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XOxxS1EMphU

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:49 am

Hey, thanks for that subtle but sure kaining to stay focused.

The car run better in regaining its idle back soon as I tested it after the cleaning the plugs. On driving off, the drug was still evident (at that time, I suspected I might have some some of those plugs dead)...then the incident of loosing power on the hill.

All the plugs were full of soot. Just to mention, I'm not sure when last the car had been serviced last, so I can't tell how long the build dup of soot took - I just aquired it from the owner last December having had it packed for years.

While troubleshooting two days back, I removed one of the plug sockets while trying to maintain the engine to run by reving it from the engine....I never knew car engines produced as much power... I got so electricuted. I wonder, why so, the socket is a plastic/ceramic...I didn't expect any power to flow through... well it has already happenned and that ended my plug test. I guess I'll glove-up this next time but still will change the plugs just as a tune-up.

(I like the removing from the distributor option...seems safer and easily accessible)

Timing is perfect. I used a bulb test.

hey. Thanks for taking me through this step-by step. The video link doesn't play. says the address wasn't understood.

Will try other videos. Thanks.

Post by **jmartini** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:43 am

I've moved this to the Mechanical/Technical Section

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:03 pm

Hi.

It's been a while since. I'm back now with interesting feedback on progress made.
1. I changed all plugs. The car idle returned to what I always experienced. The drive was with much power and we went up the hill (at a very slow pace/acceleration - having driven for abouut a km). That put a big smile.

On a second trip however, the car had some difficulty going up. I had to go back down and drive up fast to get it up.

What could be the matter?

Also to note, just as a comparison to a friends 1966 that had new plugs, distributor (magnito) and cab fit, my car seems to not deliver on speed....and I feel like it is really uneconomical on the fuel.

What fine tunes could I do next? I want to go for the valves. What advice would you give me guys??? Hey, Hercdrive..... I'm counting on you.

All in all, glad to be back.

KKV270 · Post by **KKV270** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:50 am

Hi.

Good news. I got the plugs lead cables changed, did the gaps and valves clearance and my beetles performance has improved tramendously. The idle is back.

Only thing is a major fuel drain as there seems to be a leek from the carburetter as the gaskets seem to be worn out. I'll be fixing that ina short while.

Can someone explain whether exhaust problems would also affect the fuel consumption and how. I've noticed some exhaust problems as though there is a hole somewhere. Got the visible ones sealed but can still here like there might be some we dodn't spot out.

Kindly advice.

Thanks.

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